quakins3 years ago A good way to put it. I just think this is a little worse because you can tutor it out
Poondaedalin3 years ago Prince Keleseth
Necrium Apothecary
Barnes
Convincing Infilitrator
Pocket Monster is like all of these for the same reason: it feels bad for both players. For the person playing these cards, you're either happy that you drew the card or it gave you the outcome that you hoped for, or you're salty that it didn't (especially true with Infiltrator). For the opponent, their win condition is for you to get unlucky. If you do get lucky and draw it early, then they are very likely to lose, but if you get unlucky and don't draw it at all, then they are very likely to lose. There is no counterplay other than to trust in the hand of fate. Now, this is true for all random effects, and it's a reason why people have disliked Hearthstone more and more in recent years, but there's a real difference between getting a good spell vs. getting a bad spell and winning the match vs. losing the match. That spell may not matter in the long run, but pulling Ragnaros with Barnes or buffing your deck with this or Keleseth or pulling Deathwing, Dragonlord with Apothecary or destroying your opponent's 12/15 Devout Pupil can and will win you the game.
Linwood 3 years ago Pretty good. It's a tough condition, but strong when it pays off.
keyvnn93 years ago Probably balanced winrate-wise, but having literally an entire deck revolve around drawing 2 cards isnt particularly fun. Necrium Apothecary was toxic. This is probably a lot worse than Apothecary, but still a “Feels bad, my opponent drew ___” card
quakins3 years ago I don't see how this is still an argument. It is literally just keleseth but out of control
quakins3 years ago It's part of the effect it applies. Part of the buff it applies. It's not a "condition" because there is no situation where the condition does not apply
It is ABSOLUTELY not easier than running a cost of 1-cost minions. Especially considering you can tutor this card out with shit lick crystology and you have PREMIUM hand refill in small time recruits and divine favor one of the best draw cards in the game. Safe to say this is nuts. In fact it's been fucking safe to say it's nuts. Wow playing a 1 mana 6/5 is way better than playing a 3 mana 6/5 who would have thought
TheFriendlyEnemy (creator)3 years ago @quakins Do you understand the concept of a "buff"? As in, a beneficial stat increase? Increasing the cost of all minions in your deck is not part of the [i]buff[/i], it's part of the [i]condition[/i]. And that condition, of increasing the minions, is easier than running an entire deck of 1-Cost minions. Hopefully that makes sense to you.
quakins3 years ago Idk why it's so crazy to think that making your 1 costs into 6/5s or better is pretty nuts
quakins3 years ago Bruh embiggen making the minions cost 1 more is part of it. Hence why this is not the same as embiggen.
It should increase the cost so you can't draw 2, give all your 1 costs +4/+4 and just steamroll the game
TheFriendlyEnemy (creator)3 years ago It does, though? +2/+2 is, in fact, the same as +2/+2. The condition, of costing (1) more, is easier than a fully 1-Cost deck. I don't know how else to put it.
quakins3 years ago Embiggen certainly does not give the same buff. That's a good point that could be a good nerf to this card by having it increase the cost of your 1 drops by 1
TheFriendlyEnemy (creator)3 years ago Embiggen gives the same buff and has an easier condition to deal with. It's definitely strong, but not "win for free" level strong.
quakins3 years ago Oh yeah my bad I meant Keleseth
Yeah it falls off if you literally only play 1 cost minions, but the fact that you can also run spells and weapons makes this card insane easily. Just play your best refill, this, and mostly just 1-cost minions barring a few other spells and you just get to win. +2/+2 is a HUGE buff. Enough so that drawing 2 of this means you just win for free. +4/+4 to already well statted for cost minions. This card is insane.
TheFriendlyEnemy (creator)3 years ago @DustenStein Giving the minion +1/+1 is just way worse Keleseth, though. That'd just be unplayable.
@quakins 1-Cost minions are overstatted, yes, but they fall off hard in the late game if you have nothing else. If your opponent can survive an initial wave of buffed minions, then they've beaten your only real threat. Btw, I assume you don't mean Kael'thas.
quakins3 years ago I honestly just think this isn't a very fun card. 1 cost minions are notorious for being slightly overstatted as it do I think this will just be kaelthas but way better.
Maybe if you had to only play 1 cost cards? Or maybe the effect could be changed so it gives your 1-costs divine shield or something?
DustenStein 3 years ago Making this 2 mana is bs because then you can't run two of these. I think just making it give+1/+1 is a much more elegant fix
Nekkro 3 years ago +2/+2 it's fine. but +4/+4 it's insane.
It should cost (2) to be harder to play twice so early in the game.
It's almost a Quest Rogue without the quest.
DragonicDoom3 years ago I could see it working, would be insane in that Tavern Brawl where you make a deck out of just 3 cards and get 10 copies of each. Just pick this plus Battlemage and whatever your class 1 drop is. Only thing I'd say it needs is either the Dragon or Beast tag.
TheArcanist (4.4)3 years ago How to make Zoolock the ultimate tier 1.
quakins3 years ago Idk about unexpectedly. 1 cost minions in general are quite strong, so giving them +4/+4 with the only condition being you have to draw these would be nuts. I mean it's not like you would be running a 1 cost deck. You can run only 1 cost minions and then just run your classes best refill, for instance.
Gothe3 years ago i feel like this would be unexpectedly strong
TheFriendlyEnemy (creator)3 years ago Gotta catch 'em all!
A good way to put it. I just think this is a little worse because you can tutor it out
Prince Keleseth
Necrium Apothecary
Barnes
Convincing Infilitrator
Pocket Monster is like all of these for the same reason: it feels bad for both players. For the person playing these cards, you're either happy that you drew the card or it gave you the outcome that you hoped for, or you're salty that it didn't (especially true with Infiltrator). For the opponent, their win condition is for you to get unlucky. If you do get lucky and draw it early, then they are very likely to lose, but if you get unlucky and don't draw it at all, then they are very likely to lose. There is no counterplay other than to trust in the hand of fate. Now, this is true for all random effects, and it's a reason why people have disliked Hearthstone more and more in recent years, but there's a real difference between getting a good spell vs. getting a bad spell and winning the match vs. losing the match. That spell may not matter in the long run, but pulling Ragnaros with Barnes or buffing your deck with this or Keleseth or pulling Deathwing, Dragonlord with Apothecary or destroying your opponent's 12/15 Devout Pupil can and will win you the game.
Pretty good. It's a tough condition, but strong when it pays off.
Probably balanced winrate-wise, but having literally an entire deck revolve around drawing 2 cards isnt particularly fun. Necrium Apothecary was toxic. This is probably a lot worse than Apothecary, but still a “Feels bad, my opponent drew ___” card
I don't see how this is still an argument. It is literally just keleseth but out of control
It's part of the effect it applies. Part of the buff it applies. It's not a "condition" because there is no situation where the condition does not apply
It is ABSOLUTELY not easier than running a cost of 1-cost minions. Especially considering you can tutor this card out with shit lick crystology and you have PREMIUM hand refill in small time recruits and divine favor one of the best draw cards in the game. Safe to say this is nuts. In fact it's been fucking safe to say it's nuts. Wow playing a 1 mana 6/5 is way better than playing a 3 mana 6/5 who would have thought
@quakins Do you understand the concept of a "buff"? As in, a beneficial stat increase? Increasing the cost of all minions in your deck is not part of the [i]buff[/i], it's part of the [i]condition[/i]. And that condition, of increasing the minions, is easier than running an entire deck of 1-Cost minions. Hopefully that makes sense to you.
Idk why it's so crazy to think that making your 1 costs into 6/5s or better is pretty nuts
Bruh embiggen making the minions cost 1 more is part of it. Hence why this is not the same as embiggen.
It should increase the cost so you can't draw 2, give all your 1 costs +4/+4 and just steamroll the game
It does, though? +2/+2 is, in fact, the same as +2/+2. The condition, of costing (1) more, is easier than a fully 1-Cost deck. I don't know how else to put it.
Embiggen certainly does not give the same buff. That's a good point that could be a good nerf to this card by having it increase the cost of your 1 drops by 1
Embiggen gives the same buff and has an easier condition to deal with. It's definitely strong, but not "win for free" level strong.
Oh yeah my bad I meant Keleseth
Yeah it falls off if you literally only play 1 cost minions, but the fact that you can also run spells and weapons makes this card insane easily. Just play your best refill, this, and mostly just 1-cost minions barring a few other spells and you just get to win. +2/+2 is a HUGE buff. Enough so that drawing 2 of this means you just win for free. +4/+4 to already well statted for cost minions. This card is insane.
@DustenStein Giving the minion +1/+1 is just way worse Keleseth, though. That'd just be unplayable.
@quakins 1-Cost minions are overstatted, yes, but they fall off hard in the late game if you have nothing else. If your opponent can survive an initial wave of buffed minions, then they've beaten your only real threat. Btw, I assume you don't mean Kael'thas.
I honestly just think this isn't a very fun card. 1 cost minions are notorious for being slightly overstatted as it do I think this will just be kaelthas but way better.
Maybe if you had to only play 1 cost cards? Or maybe the effect could be changed so it gives your 1-costs divine shield or something?
Making this 2 mana is bs because then you can't run two of these. I think just making it give+1/+1 is a much more elegant fix
+2/+2 it's fine. but +4/+4 it's insane.
It should cost (2) to be harder to play twice so early in the game.
It's almost a Quest Rogue without the quest.
I could see it working, would be insane in that Tavern Brawl where you make a deck out of just 3 cards and get 10 copies of each. Just pick this plus Battlemage and whatever your class 1 drop is. Only thing I'd say it needs is either the Dragon or Beast tag.
How to make Zoolock the ultimate tier 1.
Idk about unexpectedly. 1 cost minions in general are quite strong, so giving them +4/+4 with the only condition being you have to draw these would be nuts. I mean it's not like you would be running a 1 cost deck. You can run only 1 cost minions and then just run your classes best refill, for instance.
i feel like this would be unexpectedly strong
Gotta catch 'em all!